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Bad information

Postby JMYBFFT on Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:03 pm

Has anyone else noticed how much bad information there is on building boards? I have watched a lot of you tube videos that give instructions that will result in crappy boards. I rarely make comments but will on videos that are completely atrocious. I have seen two separate videos that say to use 1/4" thick decks. On top of that they did not include a center support in their design. I have seen one where the guy made 9" diameter holes. I find it disappointing that people post 'how to's' without researching first.

Am I too much of a board snob?
Do these crappy boards hurt the growth of the sport?
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Re: Bad information

Postby Luv2skyski on Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:16 pm

No, you're not a board snob. It's like anything...just a little research. The internet is such an amazing tool. When I first started researching it didn't take any time at all to find this site. NONE AT ALL!!!
Sincerely, Dave.
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Re: Bad information

Postby Kbux on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:19 pm

Have you found any sources you do recommend?
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Re: Bad information

Postby Greenie on Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:24 pm

This site has a wealth on info on it.


I don't think the people posting bad info hurts the game. It makes some people realize what it takes to make a good set of boards. Some after they learned the hard way using the bad info.I think it helps those that sell good boards or makes good boards. I never trash someone else's boards. I"ll gladly point out though if they ask where they went wrong or what is wrong with their set. I make decent playing boards for myself but I don't sell them. I have people all the time ask me to make them a set and ask for a price. When I give them a price they look like I am ripping them off. (not that I sell them). When they tell me they can get them for a cheaper price I'll glady point out what they are getting and what they should be looking for. And then they are back to the price I quoted them from someone making a good set of boards.
It's like anything on you tube. Some people know what they are talking about and others have no clue. It is up to the person looking for info to look around and figure out for themselves where the good info is coming from. I am not one either to leave negative comments on you tube but I do appreciate the ones that do.
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Re: Bad information

Postby chevellesb406 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:00 pm

Greenie wrote:This site has a wealth on info on it.


I don't think the people posting bad info hurts the game. It makes some people realize what it takes to make a good set of boards. Some after they learned the hard way using the bad info.I think it helps those that sell good boards or makes good boards. I never trash someone else's boards. I"ll gladly point out though if they ask where they went wrong or what is wrong with their set. I make decent playing boards for myself but I don't sell them. I have people all the time ask me to make them a set and ask for a price. When I give them a price they look like I am ripping them off. (not that I sell them). When they tell me they can get them for a cheaper price I'll glady point out what they are getting and what they should be looking for. And then they are back to the price I quoted them from someone making a good set of boards.
It's like anything on you tube. Some people know what they are talking about and others have no clue. It is up to the person looking for info to look around and figure out for themselves where the good info is coming from. I am not one either to leave negative comments on you tube but I do appreciate the ones that do.



I do sell them still myself, maybe 40 sets a year, nothing crazy, and almost all exclusively to another forum I am part of, an expensive hobby where people get the notion of you can pay more and get more, its what you want. Most people I meet that are friends of friends can't believe that they cost 300 bucks or so, and think I am crazy, and trust me, not exactly amazing profit margins, just a hobby, but the customers I do have a waiting list on think the value is there and fight for a position in line. It would be no fun for me to make cheaper sets with cheaper materials and not as much detail, once again, still could be sets that are great for playing in the backyard and making memories with friends and family, but in this west coast group its all who has the baddest of anything, so of course it can't just be a two color paint job or even a central logo with a border, everything has to be over the top, so, yeah, the challenge is fun, and expensive to do. Also, any customer that feels its too expensive, will always feel that even if they agree to the price, no matter how nice a set is, they don't see the value, and I have finally learned that some orders are not worth having. As long as its fun and good customers, I will still build.

-Tom
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Re: Bad information

Postby JMYBFFT on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:33 am

Tom,
It sounds like I am in a very similar situation to you. I have been building and selling boards for about 3 years now. I have no concerns about what I charge or have problems getting orders.

My concern is that someone who buys a crappy set or builds a crappy set because they follow bad directions will give up on playing because it just isn't fun.

Greenie,

I have commented on two videos. One because he was using power tools in an unsafe manner and I didn't want people watching to pick up his habits. He actually commented back to me and thanked me. He did not understand why he had so much trouble keeping the tool under control.
The second video I commented on because his plans called for 1/4" plywood for the deck with no center support. I was polite and explained why that was bad.

Kbux,
I agree with Greenie that there is a wealth of good information on this forum. I have seen some good you tube videos but I would recommend knowing the characteristics that make up a good set before watching videos so you can knowledgeably determine which ones have good information.
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Re: Bad information

Postby Hooterville on Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:54 am

I get asked 3-4 times a year to build someone a set. Went to a christmas party on Sunday evening, and a guy that I quoted some boards to, and thought the price was to high. Brought out some boards that his friend made out of 1/4" ply, 1x4 frame with no centers and flexed like heck. Another guy I made a set showed up with his boards, and soon the crappy ones were forgotten...and now he wants me to build him a good set. :D
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Re: Bad information

Postby chevellesb406 on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:40 pm

Hooterville wrote:I get asked 3-4 times a year to build someone a set. Went to a christmas party on Sunday evening, and a guy that I quoted some boards to, and thought the price was to high. Brought out some boards that his friend made out of 1/4" ply, 1x4 frame with no centers and flexed like heck. Another guy I made a set showed up with his boards, and soon the crappy ones were forgotten...and now he wants me to build him a good set. :D



It's funny, I have had a couple of friends turn me down on price and have had others made, and yeah, every party when one of my sets comes out from another friend or even if I bring over a personal set, there's never gets used, I can only imagine the burn they feel :) I certainly don't want to do it intentionally and only play even when asked as most want a more "competitive" game and are not quite as experienced, but yeah, trust me, its not because of profit margins, good materials cost good money, and they play better. No one likes throwing at a trampoline with either no slide or too much slide that teeters around and bags that are falling apart, its frustrating as all hell losing because of things like that rather than bad throwing, I like to eliminate those excuses when I play so I can only blame myself.
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Re: Bad information

Postby duster2104 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:30 am

I've made over 120 sets this past 1.5 years alone and it still gets me as to why people think cheaper is always going to be better. I don't charge a ton either and they will still have their "uncle" build them a cheap set with 2x4 frame and 1/4" tops with just paint, no finish. I've actually had someone ask me about building a set and then right there, someone else said "don't buy those, they cost too much, you can have (this guy) make you some for way cheaper."

I've made all my boards for my leagues and tournaments that i run and also all the boards for our NYS Championships we just had a couple months back and i take pride in the quality of stuff i build but when people ask me to build some and then i find out they had someone else make them because i "Charge too Much", i cant help but feel bad for them. They wont get the true experience of playing on some good, quality made boards.

I wish people would see the value in things past the paper they have to shell out to get them. I know a lot of us on this forum take pride in the craftsmanship we put into our work. Don't get me wrong, some people will make some nice boards, but when you go above and beyond to make yours a little nicer and special, it makes me angry that they don't choose quality over price.
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Re: Bad information

Postby chevellesb406 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:35 am

Very much agreed Duster,
Not only in appearance, but quality does affect game play, its a totally different game if the board is rocking all about and bags are bouncing like they are on a trampoline, you need a good landing and a nice slide to play, otherwise you might as well be throwing a rock in flower pot, you can only swish it in. Whenever anyone tells me what they can build them for, I always offer them a job and say I will pay them that and 10% to build me blanks, usually at that point they start doing research.
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Re: Bad information

Postby JMYBFFT on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:15 pm

Chevelle and Duster,
You have both touched on a point that i think is a major problem. How many people who play for the first time play on a crappy set and have no fun playing due to the board/bag quality. Likewise for someone who builds their own set based on crappy plans. What is their incentive to play again or introduce the game to other people?

Another problem is that a lot of the "uncles" that build boards do not play and therefore do not know how boards should play.
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Re: Bad information

Postby hondo on Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:22 pm

I've been at this seriously for 6 years and I've built boards of all types and all price ranges in order to please my customers and make money in the process. I do this for a living. If I've learned anything from my experience, it's that 90% of board buyers could care less about quality. I say this because roughly only 1 in 10 ever bothers to ask me about what kind of materials I use or anything about what distinguishes my boards or bags from others out there. The average consumer wants a board with a hole in it to throw bags at, and that's basically it. They're going to use their sets a couple of days a year and then stow them against the garage wall for the other 363. And, most importantly, they want to pay as little as possible in order to own a set. They're not interested in slide or stick or bounce or durability or ACO specs, etc. ...They're mainly interested in looks, and when they come to my shop or order over the phone, they expend 10 times more energy toward making sure they get the graphic design they're after then they do worrying about the actual construction or what kind of play it yields. Sad, but true.
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Re: Bad information

Postby pharaoh on Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:29 am

While I agree with some of Hondo's post, I disagree with the part that '90% could care less about quality'. This summer will mark my 8th year in this slowly fading business, at least regionally. I started when a friend bought a crappy set and I thought to myself, I can do better than that. Like many others, I jumped on the cornhole bandwagon and started making boards, even though it was relatively unheard of here compared to other parts of the country. Having been a woodworker for many years, building cabinets and furniture, I had all the necessary tools, shop space and skills to make a quality set of boards right from the start. No 2x4's, no 'B' grade plywood, no screws/nails showing. While the build process evolved somewhat, my boards are essentially the same since the first few I built. Only how I set up jigs and my shop has changed.

While it's true that the average customer just wants something to put in their yard and have some fun with, many do care about quality. They don't necessarily care or want to know about what kind of materials are used, but they know quality when they see it. As the cornhole fad became more popular in this area and more and more people either saw someone's boards or purchased their own and were able to compare a crappy set vs. a quality set, did things take off for me. Between branding all my boards, advertising, website, 'word of mouth', and building quality boards consistently, I have been able to make a pretty fair amount of $$$ selling my boards.

There were many folks who built boards around here and have come and gone. Many advertised on Craigslist, including myself for awhile, and for those who posted pictures of their wares, it was pretty obvious where the quality was. There were those who figured they could make a quick profit by investing the least amount of money and turning out some piece of crap. They didn't last long. I wasn't the first in this area to build boards but for the most part, I am the last one standing. I attribute that to quality. I joked once with a friend that my goal was to put everyone else making these things in this area out of business. Perhaps I did to some degree. At least I like to think I did.

I've heard more times than I can count that my boards were expensive, at least compared to some others. My response was simple. I'd tell someone that while it was certainly true that they could find something cheaper, they wouldn't find the same quality as mine, plain and simple. I'd invite folks to stop at my shop and have a look at how they were built and then make their comparison. In the end, it doesn't matter what the price point is, in large part it's the quality that sells a set of boards.
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Re: Bad information

Postby chevellesb406 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:44 am

pharaoh wrote:While I agree with some of Hondo's post, I disagree with the part that '90% could care less about quality'. This summer will mark my 8th year in this slowly fading business, at least regionally. I started when a friend bought a crappy set and I thought to myself, I can do better than that. Like many others, I jumped on the cornhole bandwagon and started making boards, even though it was relatively unheard of here compared to other parts of the country. Having been a woodworker for many years, building cabinets and furniture, I had all the necessary tools, shop space and skills to make a quality set of boards right from the start. No 2x4's, no 'B' grade plywood, no screws/nails showing. While the build process evolved somewhat, my boards are essentially the same since the first few I built. Only how I set up jigs and my shop has changed.

While it's true that the average customer just wants something to put in their yard and have some fun with, many do care about quality. They don't necessarily care or want to know about what kind of materials are used, but they know quality when they see it. As the cornhole fad became more popular in this area and more and more people either saw someone's boards or purchased their own and were able to compare a crappy set vs. a quality set, did things take off for me. Between branding all my boards, advertising, website, 'word of mouth', and building quality boards consistently, I have been able to make a pretty fair amount of $$$ selling my boards.

There were many folks who built boards around here and have come and gone. Many advertised on Craigslist, including myself for awhile, and for those who posted pictures of their wares, it was pretty obvious where the quality was. There were those who figured they could make a quick profit by investing the least amount of money and turning out some piece of crap. They didn't last long. I wasn't the first in this area to build boards but for the most part, I am the last one standing. I attribute that to quality. I joked once with a friend that my goal was to put everyone else making these things in this area out of business. Perhaps I did to some degree. At least I like to think I did.

I've heard more times than I can count that my boards were expensive, at least compared to some others. My response was simple. I'd tell someone that while it was certainly true that they could find something cheaper, they wouldn't find the same quality as mine, plain and simple. I'd invite folks to stop at my shop and have a look at how they were built and then make their comparison. In the end, it doesn't matter what the price point is, in large part it's the quality that sells a set of boards.



Business out her in So Cal is slowing down, and I really only build for a niche market of people with a separate shared hobby of mine. Its a group with a bit more disposable income typically, and its all about having the nicest cool quality stuff, luckily I can deliver. These guys want the highest level of street cred at the backyard get together and luckily are willing to pay for it, and any random customers outside the group I appreciate, but the common person that hits me up from other references can't get their head around the price, they want what I do for a third of the price, I am charging the going rates, people just think wood and paint are free. I will keep building as long as its fun and this particular community keeps me busy, but yeah, the common person "off the street" wants a cheaper solution I am just not that interested in building. Its just a bit of beer money for me, call it 4 sets a month or so.

Man Pharaoh, I miss seeing everyone's work, but its not like I post pics anymore these days, too much to lose with most of the designs we are asked for. Its a shame the forum has died.
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Re: Bad information

Postby hondo on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:44 pm

pharaoh wrote:While I agree with some of Hondo's post, I disagree with the part that '90% could care less about quality'. This summer will mark my 8th year in this slowly fading business, at least regionally. I started when a friend bought a crappy set and I thought to myself, I can do better than that. Like many others, I jumped on the cornhole bandwagon and started making boards, even though it was relatively unheard of here compared to other parts of the country. Having been a woodworker for many years, building cabinets and furniture, I had all the necessary tools, shop space and skills to make a quality set of boards right from the start. No 2x4's, no 'B' grade plywood, no screws/nails showing. While the build process evolved somewhat, my boards are essentially the same since the first few I built. Only how I set up jigs and my shop has changed.

While it's true that the average customer just wants something to put in their yard and have some fun with, many do care about quality. They don't necessarily care or want to know about what kind of materials are used, but they know quality when they see it. As the cornhole fad became more popular in this area and more and more people either saw someone's boards or purchased their own and were able to compare a crappy set vs. a quality set, did things take off for me. Between branding all my boards, advertising, website, 'word of mouth', and building quality boards consistently, I have been able to make a pretty fair amount of $$$ selling my boards.

There were many folks who built boards around here and have come and gone. Many advertised on Craigslist, including myself for awhile, and for those who posted pictures of their wares, it was pretty obvious where the quality was. There were those who figured they could make a quick profit by investing the least amount of money and turning out some piece of crap. They didn't last long. I wasn't the first in this area to build boards but for the most part, I am the last one standing. I attribute that to quality. I joked once with a friend that my goal was to put everyone else making these things in this area out of business. Perhaps I did to some degree. At least I like to think I did.

I've heard more times than I can count that my boards were expensive, at least compared to some others. My response was simple. I'd tell someone that while it was certainly true that they could find something cheaper, they wouldn't find the same quality as mine, plain and simple. I'd invite folks to stop at my shop and have a look at how they were built and then make their comparison. In the end, it doesn't matter what the price point is, in large part it's the quality that sells a set of boards.


I'm sorry, but I will stand by my claim that 9 of 10 don't care about the details of construction/overall quality, or if they do, they don't go very far to convince me otherwise. I know the difference between a sweet set and a crappy one, and simple economic need has forced me to settle somewhere in between. Bottom line - I NEED TO MAKE MONEY, and I need to do it consistently. In order to do that, I needed to lower the retail cost of my sets in order to address the competition....Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is churning these things out and then cutting his own throat when he slaps a cheap price tag on it...In the process, he's cutting mine too to some degree, and that whole element of the business can't be ignored if your goal is to dominate your market. Just to be clear - my sets are still nice...By no means do I slap junk together...not AS nice as they once were, maybe, but so be it. I don't lose any sleep over the fact. I tie up less money in materials now, build in volume faster, and make more per sale than I ever have, and I've yet to have a complaint.

You are focused upon being the premier builder. That's good - I get that, because I've been down that road too. I look at it differently now. You say that your market is drying up....I don't have that problem, at least not yet. I believe that cornhole is here to stay and that it's not a fad. Too many new leagues and tourneys are popping up here to help sustain it, but......the people that play in them are not my customers for the most part. My customers consist primarily of folks who are looking to mess around in their back yard. Among them - Gift givers, wedding set buyers, people who are looking to commemorate some kind of theme in visual terms for little purpose other than that. Most of my buyers don't even know what distance apart the boards are supposed to be, much less any of the other rules.
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